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Do you think women are treated as equals? What changes would you like to see?
Depends. If you're talking about women getting to be closer to the goal of being equal to men, then...at least, from the perspective of ancient history, perhaps. Maybe. If you're talking about Feminism reaching it's goal completely nowadays, I disagree.

Feminism and Masculinism together. The idea of men and women being equal. In fact, I thin BOTH women and men today are losing sight of what truly should be for equality and so forth.

Surprised? Look at today's culture. Seriously, you call THAT feminism? Do you call Michelle Bachmann's and Sarah Palin's extremist Social Darwinist ideals of going back to the Stone Age patriarchal ideals "feminism"? Actually, I find Bachmann slightly more respectable: at least she works to gain power to an extent with her charisma, but...I disagree so hard with her ideology on feminist ideals that I can't even begin to talk about them without screaming at the world for letting her talk that ways about "women's place in the world."

I call that an attempt to send us all back to the Dark Ages...or even the Stone Age.


Feminism does NOT mean: Dystopian themes of rampant sexuality that degrades men and women together down to the lowest basity of human darkness. NOR does it mean patriarchal ideals that go back to the Ancient World. Feminism also does NOT mean child prostitution and stupidity and consumerist Jungle ideals of women being objects worshipped as "sexy, hot and beautiful". Feminism does NOT mean blaming men for all their problems, either.

There ARE, after all, women who support patriarchy because they benefit from being lazy and being worshipped for forcing other girls into prostitution. That includes the Camorriste and the human traffickers of the world.

You know what I call a feminist?

The First Wave Feminists were all real feminists.

Simone de Beauvoir was a real feminist.

Betty Friedan is a real feminist.

Betty Ford was a real feminist.

Eleanor Roosevelt is a real feminist.

All the First Wave and Second Wavers were (and still are) real feminists.

The women that would fight through Fire and Ice and fight dragons and the worst kind of monsters to gain rights for all the women in the world are real feminists.



1) Women working together with Men worldwide to destroy and collapse the Human Trafficking system in the Entire Damn world. NO MORE SLAVERY. MEN OR WOMEN.

2) Destruction of all the cultural perspectives that men are more rational than women and are more fit to be leaders, capable people and deserving of more opportunity than women. Same with vice versa: women are not better than men, either. Women are not necessarily naturally always more nurturing, more kind and emotional. We are just engrained to be that ways by the society--it's a psychological effect that we have in the society even when we are born. We easily pick this up from our parents, schools, media, etc.

3) Women and Men both serving in the military as SOLDIERS, GENERALS, SERGEANTS, and ELITE FORCE NAVY SEALS, ETC.. Equality is a very difficult thing to achieve, despite what we all hope for, AND because this is the best, most BLATANT way to prove that women and men deserve to be equal.

4) Women having every right to vote as men. Same with vice versa...encourage and push for every single individual in the damn country, continent, and world to vote for their political governments--National, State and Local--so that they can support the ideals of a truly democratic, Republic Society.

5) Women and men BOTH being signed on Selective Service. This means both of them will have to fight if a war really does break out. This also ensures that ALL the women of the nation will CARE about what happens before, when and after a war starts.

6) Women and Men BOTH working together in Political Activism and Talking Openly about Social and Public issues together, accepting each other as equals, and allowing each other to work with their greatest strengths in mind regardless of gender.

7) Women and Men BOTH fighting for the right of women to be seen as equal as men (and VICE VERSA) in all aspects of living. That means women have the same rights as men to be CEOs and Scientific Researchers just as men have the same rights as women to be Writers, Professors of Humanities and Nurses. No more gender stereotyping on both sides.  

8) Women and Men BOTH working equally in the workforce. Charisma, Strength, Power, etc…all must be applied to both in standards. That means women should not use double standards on men, either, because both Men and Women will suffer in this regard on making the cause of equality perfect.  

9) Women and Men BOTH taking care of the kids at home and carefully doing so. Both of them must watch out for any problems, and both must be made aware and so forth of the sacrifices both make. If one of them refuses (or both), the feminist movement is dead.  

10) Stop blaming. Both of you are at fault here: Men, for trying to maintain their sense of power. Women, for throwing their hatred back at the better Men who don’t deserve that kind of treatment by getting back at all men. Etc.



Do you know what this means? Women need to be just as active in changing the world TOGETHER WITH THE MEN.

The problem is, the world never changes easily. Just look at the First and Second Wave Feminists: The First and Second Wave Feminists ALWAYS marched on the street, all the while taking care of their children, families and so forth. They all knew that they would be arrested, captured, convicted and sent to jail, and even gang-raped and killed or even mass murdered and tortured and sliced apart. And yet...they still went.

They went so they could make all the women in the world as free as the men. Even though they knew many of them could be shot to death, beaten to death, mocked, jeered, psychologically tortured, etc...

If you ARE a Feminist, say out loud that you can fulfill those standards as they did. Do it and prove that you are one of us. Otherwise, I will not take you seriously. I will probably hope that someone will take you out of your misery by ignoring you for eternity.

Edit: I admit, what I said earlier did have some issues (so I changed some of them), mainly because I was frustrated with the popular culture surrounding the Miley Cyrus phenomenon. Though...I shouldn't blame Miss Cyrus for things like that herself, since she doesn't know much about what she's really doing and is just a scared little girl.

I will also admit, I don't look down on all forms of prostitution, but I DO hate forced prostitution and child prostitution made into a business via human trafficking. There are at least tens of thousands of little girls being sold from Yunnan, China into the Golden Triangle (thanks to my understanding of what happens over there) to become prostitutes or child brides or wives of people who buy people as trophies. Not to mention being sold to Japan, South Africa, the USA, etc. forcibly.

The problem with making prostitution legal in all places in the world is the fact that not every place in the world is a first-world area like the USA or Western Europe. Unlike what certain people think, any form of legalized prostitution in China will inevitably end up with lots of 9-year-olds being sold to raise a family of boys (because farmers in that area don't care about their daughters and would prefer boys instead, since they see girls as maggots in their rice >.<), since there is so much damn corruption in that government, so I don't trust their society to ensure that the women who are selling their bodies are all 18 and older. Chances are, they might even turn a blind eye even if the female is 5. The problem is that patriarchal societies like China's makes prostitution a bad practice, since it commercializes it to force people to get into it even when they don't want to. That's the way it is. The rampant human trafficking over there is a result of the society being that ways.

As for the people who don't mind going into that industry, I don't really mind what they do, as long as they stay healthy and have a support system of health insurance and all that, since such an industry isn't something that one can easily be alright without testing and health evaluations. And as long as they don't support human trafficking.


Aug. 26th, 2011 08:12 pm (UTC)
Your post are great! I always think that chilvary for woman is not a good thing.
Aug. 26th, 2011 11:21 pm (UTC)
Depending on the kind of chivalry. If it's the chivalry with women being equals, then it's fine. If it's chivalry with "women HAVE TO STAY AT HOME BECAUSE THEY ALL ARE TOO DELICATE TO DO ANYTHING," then it's not.

I'm just angry with certain who portray themselves as Feminist when they AREN'T.
(Deleted comment)
Aug. 26th, 2011 11:31 pm (UTC)
Well, in ways...I guess I'm just not okay with either women or men selling themselves to get an advantage (just my own perspective, though). Straight world or not, prostitutes (male or female) are a big affront to me in ways, since both gender prostitutes get to earn a much more comfortable living without having to work at all while many men AND women end up fighting harshly the hard and more productive way on living and contributing to society. But, you're right in a sense. Males should be held up to standard the same way as females. Both should learn to become the best they can be without resorting to the lowest, easiest way out.

Also, keep in mind that a majority of the sex work places out there in the world are NOT what you would consider democratic (many of the women and men out there are forced to stay in one place and sold to others like cattle, and I feel bad for them about that since they really can't do anything to get out of that status). Even if the government were to legalize prostitution, many of these places would actually force children to claim that they are being legal and so forth, and considering how traumatized the individuals involved are...I wouldn't be surprised if many of them shut up just to stay alive. Hence, my stance on all prostitution as something that must be destroyed.

As for me calling a woman a "prostitute" or anything of those lines...keep in mind that I can call men that as well. Insults are insults. Cunt, I never use, because I think it is too particularly female-oriented.

Also, said women are not exactly wanting sexual attention as much as getting it to pay themselves a living (remember that Miley Cyrus did that photo to earn money)--something that really is synonymous to prostitution, though this time with the woman taking advantage of the patriarchal ideals to feed herself, which hurts other women in general due to their association with her through gender.
Aug. 26th, 2011 11:37 pm (UTC)
If you’re going to get mad at female pop stars, get mad at them for keeping their mouths shut about women’s issues, not for prostituting themselves.

I'm mad at them for doing both, actually, the latter which actually exacerbates the situation greatly. Whatever you think, sex work is an easy way out for both men and women, and is another aspect that Patriarchal ideals can be supported. The stupidity of the patriarchal society is that it believes all things must be set in stone, and the fact that we will refuse to change our behavior and continue to let certain guys (I refuse to call these people men, because they aren't worthy) see us as objects instead of people. The problem in prostitution lies in the fact that it allows people to have an excuse to see people as objects instead of people, and allows no room for the worker to truly find a way to live with alternatives or choice.

Aug. 27th, 2011 12:00 am (UTC)
Last, but not least...what I am complaining about the most is the fact that these people (Miley Cyrus and Paris Hilton) are claiming themselves as "ultimate feminists". Such is misleading, hurts the women in the world who actually are feminists and makes my blood boil over plasma.
(Deleted comment)
Aug. 27th, 2011 11:25 pm (UTC)
Lowest? Why? Because they’re selling sex? If you think it is all about money, think again.

If you think it ISN'T about money for the Camorra or the mafia or any other illegal sex industry in the world, think again. The reason why they earn so much is because it is extremely profitable (otherwise, they wouldn't do it).

I’m not talking about cases of human trafficking, human slavery or force. I am talking about consensual whoring.

Actually, no...you're not. You ARE talking about human trafficking victims. You ARE talking about human slavery and 9-year-old girls being raped for money to be sent to their "owners".

IF you weren't, you would at least say that the women who practice prostitution as a career should also have the choice to pick other careers instead as well and so forth and do not have any need to be a prostitute IF they wish. If you were, you would say that anyone under the consensual adult age (depending on the world's standards) is not allowed to make this decision until they are old enough.

The fact is, however, that you didn't bring this factor up, and that you don't seem to realize that governments can be very corrupt (if a major part of an entire government was corruptive and so forth, most of the people in it wouldn't care if 8-year-old girls and boys get raped so they can be paid). Also, keep in mind that prostitution being legal in certain places of the world could also lead to a spike in numbers of girls being kidnapped to those places and being forced to say they are of legal age. Also, you seem to have too much faith in the government to control this industry, since you seem to be implying that the control will be perfect and seamless.

No, Camorra girl, it isn't. Take the Italian government right now, for instance: the reason why people in the mafia do so well even now has to do with the sheer scale of corruption and weakness in that entire society. The reason why it is so weak is because of the fact that they cannot control anything well. If I were to leave a government like that in control (which I usually wouldn't), I would not want to see them let the mafia take over the sex industry and turn it into a legal human trafficking industry.
(Deleted comment)
Aug. 27th, 2011 11:30 pm (UTC)
True, I don't know what they were thinking. Nevertheless, they aren't what I would consider feminists. The fact that they call themselves feminists even when they don't support equality and improvement of the society is what gets to me.

As for the book, I haven't read it. It might be an interesting read, but I will also say that prostitution, if institutionalized, will still have some repercussions in regards to human trafficking due to the mafia and the other transnational crime rings becoming legal. Depending on how stable and capable the government is, the human trafficking industry could still be sent through loopholes if they didn't do well. And if that's the case and if the numbers of kidnappings increase dramatically, I will still prefer the older way of destroying all brothels to a corrupt government that allows human trafficking.
(Deleted comment)
Aug. 27th, 2011 11:08 pm (UTC)
You know, your response is exactly what I would get from a Camorrista woman (any mafia wife from Naples, Campania in Italy, people who would support human trafficking and kidnapping baby girls to force and beat them into submission to sell for money). My opinion of prostitutes and high sexual people? I said OBJECTIFYING, forcing someone to be a sexual being when they don't want to be and to force them to sleep with others or do things. For someone who seems to be so high and mighty, you are great at labeling others into a negative category so quickly.

As for what sex is...I don't even have an opinion of it. I'm a girl with PTSD symptoms and a rape victim and I want to be sure of what it defines exactly before I can make any opinion of it.

But, I do know one thing for sure: the kind of prostitution that you so worship (which actually can become continued forced prostitution, but you don't seem to care about that) is actually a route back to the Dark Ages. Unless the government has perfect control over the sex industry--which is impossible given that mafia is a problem in the transnational world--the prostitution you speak of will only kidnap little girls to sell them in the slums.

As for society: it never was right in the first place (in fact, if you ask me, it already had and still has a dystopian kind of atmosphere). The problem is, the women who fight for the rights of their gender are doing it wrong.
Aug. 27th, 2011 11:39 pm (UTC)
Take, for instance, Japan. Japan is a place where red-light districts are common. Japan is a first world country.

Guess what? Japan is also a place where hundreds of thousands of little girls from all over the world get kidnapped to in order to be sold as sexual slaves (this is the reason why government officials from Yunnan, China claim that at least 30,000 girls are missing from their province). There are more girls from China, Vietnam, Thailand, Mexico, Peru and other places in the world working in the so-called "water industry" of Japan than any Japanese girls.

Unless you are advocating that all the world legalizes prostitution and forms a truly powerful, capable-enough government institution to control the scene, then I call bullshit. I think you just want to excuse human trafficking.
(Deleted comment)
Aug. 27th, 2011 11:34 pm (UTC)
Sexual behavior, I don't care. Sexual behavior in public and out in the open in a library? I don't think so.

I disagree not because I am not completely for it, but because I am ambivalent about the idea of legalizing prostitution as the be-all-end-all solution to destroying human trafficking for sexual slavery. If the government was perfect, then I would consider it, but since it isn't...perdon, no deal.
(Deleted comment)
Sep. 20th, 2011 09:14 pm (UTC)
I'm talking not from the USA perspective, but from the third world country perspective. Most third world country missing girls are often shipped to the USA, I should remind you.

Also, keep in mind, where I was born from (People's Republic of China), it was so damn common and still is damn common for little baby girls to be sold off for a bit of money. The government tries to keep these human traffickers in the jail, but it is impossible to catch all of them at the same time (since even they have lawyers and can have those people pretend to say that their rights are being violated when they themselves violate other people's rights). What's more, third world countries such as certain places in Kenya, Bangladesh, Thailand and other places have such a high rate of selling girls illegally into the prostitution business that it's not even unexpected. And, keep in mind, these governments have a lot of corruption (including in China) and the officials probably might turn a blind eye to the 8-year-old girls who pose as 18-year-olds if they get money for the thing.

I'm not complaining about the government in the USA being unable to do this in their own country. I'm complaining about the governments of the world being able to cooperate. Keep in mind, if the USA wants to legalize prostitution, they might have to keep a strong eye on what is going on in other countries so they won't accidentally ship some poor 6-year-old girl into their country as a legal prostitute.

Also, a lot of the research that people do in other countries are often politically-run (used to either hide evidence or to display the evidence that is only useful to them). I, for one, don't trust a lot of the research done that is for profit. Unless all the non-profit organizations in the world say that legalizing prostitution around the world will help every single person, I'm not going to agree that prostitution being legalized is the only way to go.
Sep. 20th, 2011 09:20 pm (UTC)
Also, mafia connections to the government aren't actually unheard of. Just look at Naples, Campania and even Chongqing, China. The mafias there are more powerful than the government until only recently (and that's only in the second city. The first one still literally controls the first one). The reason? Because they have an inefficient government.

Unfortunately, I don't trust inefficient government to run the case.

I do, however, assent that I don't have the right to decide what a woman does. I don't really care, either way. What I do care about, however, is what she promotes. If a woman decides to be an exhibitionist, fine. If she decides to support the Camorra's business and say that she is a "feminist"? No.
(Deleted comment)
Aug. 26th, 2011 11:43 pm (UTC)
Calling themselves virgins and actually portraying a positive perspective of oneself out to the public are two different things. Anyone could call himself/herself a virgin, and I could care less if he/she became a Gold Digger.

But, back to my point: supporting both genders allowing themselves to support the idea of sexual objectifying is only a form of exacerbation on the part of feminism. Sexuality can be in any form, that I agree, but objectifying anyone is absolutely downright grotesque and should never be allowed. If women (and men) continue at the rate you are proposing, then we might as well go for a Brave New World type dystopia where all men and women can sleep with each other as much as they wish (and get high on soma so we will all have exactly the same mindset).
Aug. 27th, 2011 06:03 am (UTC)

But seriously, I wish I was capable of debating more coherently like in this post. I tend to get lost in my thought and it's SO FRUSTRATING. But this is brilliant work. :)
Aug. 28th, 2011 05:24 am (UTC)
The arguments are interesting, but I kind get lost in translation somewhere, so I don't know whether my arguments will be relevant enough.

Due to my upbringing, I'm not entirely comfortable with sex and anything related to it. Though I've learned to respect people's choices and refrain myself from laying judgment. Call me anything, but hopefully the respect will be mutual on both sides.

I just find it odd that the trend that I see that those who pose naked are more often women than men. If red carpet events can be used a reference of how to dress or look their best, why is it the women always wear less clothes (and more skin) and the men always wear more clothes (never wears shirt only, there's always a jacket: suits, tuxedo, etc. and barely any skin at all). If equality is set based on the men's standard (in this case, more clothes), why should women wear less? So I think it's natural if I get the impression that women tried to get over their insecurities by being (or at least appearing) bolder than men. Which is rather a shallow kind of equality to me. I just don't know what it proves, really.

Personally, I just want that people when they look at me, they won't only be looking at the physical aspects they find appealing, because people tend to fail to look beyond them, or at least ignore them.

Women has their right to choose what to do with themselves, including flaunting their sexuality. However, they must be aware that their choice would reflect upon women in general, whether they want to or not. It's just like the dumb blonde stereotype, which might be true to some, but not all. Those who might match the stereotype might not care much, but how about the others who don't? Whatever they do ends up being undone and cementing the stereotype instead. Would that be fair?

Basically, equality is a work of all men and women. It is not a work of few. That I completely agree.
Sep. 20th, 2011 09:06 pm (UTC)
Actually, I find your arguments more to the point than mine. ^^; Women do have the right to present themselves in their own ways, but they do have to keep in mind of how they present themselves. Same with men, and you are so darn right about women being more often revealing themselves on the red carpet than men...it's kinda saddening.

I guess...I was just downright frustrated with what human traffickers and so forth do and what the women who support those people do when they claim to be "feminists". That was why I wrote this post. However, in ways, the other girl here does have a point. I shouldn't judge based on sexuality, either.

It's just when human traffickers (including, and especially the Camorrista ones) say they are not violating anything bad that gets to me. And especially when some women support them and think themselves right and "feminists"(Camorra women or most women in Naples who support the Camorra).


Gilgamesh, the King of Heroes
Fire child

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